From Redwood to Resin: The Evolution of A&B Accessories with Ryan Landwehr

Join us on a journey through the world of hot tub accessories with Ryan Landwehr from A&B Accessories. We uncover how this company, known for its innovative steps, supports, and tables, has transformed from a redwood importing company to a significant player in the simulated wood composite and resin plastic material sector. Ryan’s expertise and insights shed light on the importance of backyard design in enhancing not just the aesthetics, but the functionality of your hot tub.

We explore the core of A&B's 35-year history and their commitment to elevating the backyard experience. Learn how this company is shaping the hot tub experience by focusing on areas outside the tub itself. Our conversation with Ryan delves into the crucial role of accessories, the evolution of the market amidst the COVID pandemic, and how A&B is tapping into the growth opportunities that have arisen. With a penchant for customization, A&B accommodates any manufacturer's mold design and ensures your hot tub becomes part of your overall backyard design.

Our discussion moves through the realm of design trends, HDPE outdoor products, and even the contentious world of cup holders. Ryan shares his passion for creating accessible, complimentary designs using wheelhouses, decks, platforms, and planter boxes. We delve into how they are breaking new ground in the swim spa category, and how the use of high-density polyethylene in their products ensures longevity and stands up to extreme weather conditions. Finally, Ryan encourages listeners to join a like-minded community on the private Facebook page, Clean your Filter, and to explore the book Hot Tub Clarity available on Amazon.

You can find Ryan at www.aandbaccessories.com

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:26

Today we have a super special guest, mr Ryan Landware from A&B Accessories, and we are going to bring him on right now. Hey, ryan, how you doing.

Speaker 2: 0:41

Good day hot tub lady.

Speaker 1: 0:43

So I'm super excited to have you here, and let's just get started real quick. Who are you? Tell me about your business, tell me about the store, or tell me about your all of the things.

Speaker 2: 0:54

Sure. So I'm a almost 30 year pool and spa veteran. I started out at the in the commercial pool business way back when and then moved into retail, then went into manufacturing and a year ago had an opportunity to make an acquisition within the industry of a company called A&B Accessories. A&b is a 35 year old brand, a household brand relative to steps and supports and tables, and had a very niche custom offering, started out as a redwood importing company back when hot tubs were still made out of wood and then, when the second owner came into the company back in the early 2000s, he started transitioning into company to where the whole industry was going, which was simulated wood composite and then eventually resin plastic material.

Speaker 2: 1:38

That's who we are today and we're known for being able to build anything you want to compliment your hot tub, make it more accessible, make it more usable and just really overall, enhance your backyard experience. We love the industry, I love the industry. It's hard to get out of the industry. I thought I might for a little while, once you're in, so you can't get out.

Speaker 1: 1:57

There is that's right.

Speaker 1: 1:58

That's for sure. So my history with you gosh, I've met you 20 years ago, I bet. Yeah, so, and so you've been around forever and you've been big factory reps. You've done a lot of things. You've been in charge of really major brands. You've done all that and you did a great job with it, and so you know what the industry needs and you know what's going on.

Speaker 1: 2:24

So then A and B showed up, and I've I've been selling A and B since 2003.

Speaker 1: 2:31

My very first location that's what we did for a mood room is we had an A and B gazebo, and we'll talk about that a little bit more later, but that was my mood room and so I've been selling them forever, and it was back when it was redwood. So that that tells you a lot, and the stuff that you do now is absolutely incredible. I'll pull your website up here in a little bit, but we just one of the locations that I work at we just completely re, re stock the store with your product and it has totally changed everything. It has lifted the level of the product, it makes the product look better, it's a complete package, and I know you're a custom, custom builder, but one of the things that you do is you do work with a lot of different brands. You'll work with whatever brand that's out there, but you complete you. It's a custom, so everything fits and it looks just absolutely perfect. Tell me a little bit more about that. Tell me why that's important and that's what you do.

Speaker 2: 3:28

And yeah, when the company started out it was all about making two-tier steps out of redwood and what they found was that people are really trying to complement this investment they've made right, this wellness investment in their backyard. And even to this day I still laugh when I see a $15,000 hot tub with a hundred dollar plastic step in front of it. I don't just think we all do it. I know everybody's guilty and there's, there's that was in pointy fingers is everybody's guilty and I get sometimes this path of least resistance. But when customers see a choice and or they see a visual or all visual folks and they see it in front of them, like you're mentioning with your showroom, it changes the entire experience. They find their product more useful. They find their product easier to use, right, whether it's navigating a cover or having a place to put a drink or having a place to place your towel. They really don't think about that in the heat of the moment of buying a hot tub.

Speaker 1: 4:19

It's after the fact they get it home, they're in it a few times. It's like where do I put my?

Speaker 2: 4:21

robe? Where do I put my towel? Where does this drink go? As hot tubbers, we always hear, there's never enough drink holders Never.

Speaker 1: 4:29

What.

Speaker 2: 4:30

But we're only thinking inside this seven by seven or seven and a half by seven, half space. Let's think outside of the acrylic Right. And how do we enhance that overall experience outside of the hot tub? So that's where our products really have found their niche. And because we are building out of HDPE, which is high density polyethylene, we're very complimentary to what the siding of a hot tub looks like. There's no aluminum, there's no metal, there's no wood, so they're going to last a long time. We're going to be as durable as your hot tub is durable. We're going to be durable. So you're going to have that very same look for the longevity of your hot tub and I don't think folks really think about that part at the point of sale. They're just so concerned on finding the right hot tub and the right fit, and the right is just going to have all the benefits that I'm looking for in a hot tub.

Speaker 2: 5:21

They're laser focused inside that acrylic space and as sellers starting to look outside that space, there's just so much opportunity to again increase average sale, price increase, sales Increase every just. There's a lot of opportunity outside of it too. So the accessory business is a big business and being on this side of the fence now, like I was always aware of it as a manufacturer or rep, like on the peripheral. But, holy cow, there's a lot of accessories and A&B found its niche years ago and has now grown that niche into kind of a more household name. And yes, we do custom. That is always going to be us. But our opportunity for growth is simplification and standardization of some of our more popular skews and really get some velocity out of our factory.

Speaker 1: 6:10

What I love is how well you've matched up. So when the customer comes in and they see the product and in fact you know what, I'm just going to pull up the website right now. So I've got your website right here. And for those of you that want to check this out, he, Ryan, does have a website and it is. I have it. Where'd I put it? It's ambeaccessoriescom and you spell out the word and Yep, but the links are in the show notes. So be sure to check that out there.

Speaker 1: 6:38

But for those of you just listening to the podcast, this is just a beautiful step the bar, the seats, the whole thing. So this is a picture. It's on your main screen. I don't know if you can see the screen or not there, Ryan, but when people see that, it just it looks like it's a whole, it's a whole package and it looks so good when the customer comes home and sees that. And then, like you said, when you have a $15,000, $20,000 hot tub and you've got that $100, step in front of it, you do something like this, and then it just looks like a total investment and it looks like you've and it's not this major project when it comes to building it in your backyard. It's very simple to put together once. Once you have it.

Speaker 2: 7:22

I think we scare people away with the word custom at sometimes because they're like ah, custom man, am I going to? If you've done custom saunas or you've done custom anything in your business as a, if you're a dealer, retailer, one of our sellers, you just go. Ah, it's going to be a lot of time and effort, but we build everything very modular. When we ship it to a dealer or a customer, it's 80% assembled, like we're not going to make you go through the headache of assembling custom stuff, even though we build custom stuff, so there should be nothing there.

Speaker 2: 7:49

I think A lot of it too and I've heard you say this before too, jackie is just it's the pre-planning a little bit. If you're showing it at the time of sale, if you're talking about it at the time of sale, you know the concrete's going to be poured correctly. When they're envisioning what their hot tub is going to look like in their backyard, they're starting to take into consideration not just the footprint but the overall footprint, right Adding an extra two or three feet on the perimeter to make everything more accessible, to have these options available to them. And when given that option, what we hear time and time again is customers are going to take it and they do take it and once you see it, when you see it, these pictures don't do it justice.

Speaker 1: 8:32

It's beefy, heavy quality stuff and when you see it you're like, oh, I got to have that. And sometimes it's a little more money than you thought just because you have in mind that, oh, they're going to throw in a step when they've got that, this is a whole package. Now, if you look at something like this with the two-tier step and the bar and the seats and all that around it, then it's a whole piece. It's a whole section of your patio. It's just not this box of water sitting in your backyard. And you've been in the industry so you know how important it is to have things like cover lifters and all of that and you work with all that. So you absolutely, when you see this bar on here, you can make something like that work with the cover lifter. You know how to do that and you know how to. You've been. You know what a customer needs to be happy, be a happy hot tubber. And so it does. It works incredibly well.

Speaker 2: 9:25

We've talked for years about ease of access right, and sometimes customers come in with this band, this grand vision of what their backyard's going to look like and the hot tubs 40 feet from the nearest door, and they think they're going to go walking out there in the winter in their swimsuit or whatever or less, and they're going to jump in and have this great soaking experience and they're going to get out and truck 40 feet back to the door. That's not accessible and that's almost the way we approach this. If you think about all the different ways you can utilize your hot tub for entertainment, for relaxation, having these complimentary pieces going around it just enhances the experience.

Speaker 2: 10:00

Backyard design and being thoughtful of your backyard layout. We're seeing so much money put into the backyard. This has been like a trend for the last since the recession. Really, we came out of the recession. It's just been this upward trajectory of backyard design. People are spending $50,000, $200,000 on these backyard projects because it's become an extension of their home. And so when you start thinking about, yeah, our product's a little bit more expensive, absolutely. But when they see how complimentary it is to everything else they want to do back there patio furniture, fire pits, barbecues, it all goes together. And again, do you want to see that little single two-tier plastic step that bows in the middle, or do you want to have this nice complimentary design all the way around? And so it all has to be part of that package when you're looking at the backyard as a whole.

Speaker 2: 10:52

But yes, to your point, we are brand agnostic. We don't work with any particular brand over the other. Based on corner radiuses and overall design of a hot tub, we can work with any cover lifter, any size hot tub doesn't matter, even all the way up to swim spots. Swim spots is one of our fastest growing categories right now because the number of calls we get where somebody's yeah, I just got this swim spot delivered and it's 52 inches tall and I don't know how to get in and I'm using a step ladder. If I had a nickel.

Speaker 1: 11:20

Big piece of the swim spa industry is what are you going to do for a step? How are you going to get in there? And that's a. You have to sell that with the swim spas you have to those swim spa owners that are out there. That's such a big piece of that is how are you going to be able to get in there and make it look good, because you don't want to have a step ladder sitting out there. That's right. I'm shocked. I'm shocked how many people will actually start with a step ladder? It's nuts.

Speaker 2: 11:47

The number of calls that we get at our shop, for people are like, hey, I just got this delivered and of course then they didn't think about it. Their concrete is only three or four inches wider than the footprint of the swim spot itself and I'm like you're using a ladder to get in. This is a recipe for disaster. And again, they're tall. I'm not a tall person, so I think about people trying to get these huge covers off. The nemesis, unfortunately, of the swim spa industry is that big cover. Okay, there are some good solutions out there for that. Again, you got to be able to reach it, you got to be able to access it, and I wish that was talked about more at the point of sale, because it's just not talked about enough. And again, we love it, we make, we take those calls all day long, but, holy moly, it is just definitely not. There's not enough conversation happening at the point of sale about it.

Speaker 1: 12:33

For sure, and so I've got your gallery pulled up right now and I'm pulling, I'm showing pictures. I'm actually at the swim spa section with just these little decks and like you build around the Kavana's you think about that it's fantastic and it looks so good. The product that you do is absolutely amazing and, like this two tier deck system that you built and there's a hot tub on, it's just awesome and I just I can't explain enough. And when we were talking about corner radiuses, you got this. I think that was dimension one with the big yes.

Speaker 2: 13:10

Those templates have lived on.

Speaker 1: 13:12

There's no way anybody could come up with that. So if you guys are looking to complete your backyard package, check out this company. I'm telling you A&B accessories, they'll figure it out for you and it looks absolutely amazing. And so what? Let's talk about your product lineup. What all do you sell at this point?

Speaker 2: 13:32

Our real focus predominantly, or at least our highest runners, are anything step related, anything table related, anything that can go adjacent to your hot tub. That's going to make it more functional as our wheelhouse, to your point, we build decks, we build platforms, we build things to hang your towel on, we build planter boxes, we build. That's really hot tub focused stuff is where we're at Historically as a company, we've been in the barbecue business before, which is an overrun with non custom things, so that's really not a focus for us anymore. But relative to the hot tub and swim spa, that is really right now, 80% of our business. And, to your point, every hot tub is built different. Every manufacturer's got different specs, so we're constantly adjusting to making sure that if a manufacturer changes the mold design, that we have a product ready for them.

Speaker 2: 14:25

Dimension one has historically had very interesting curves to all of their exterior, which we've had to build templates for. But we can do to my knowledge we're the only ones doing it so we get a lot of those customers constantly. Hey, I have this two tier step. There's a massive three inch gap between my top step and me getting in. No problem, we can take care of that for you. That is a heavy focus for us as we get bigger and as the industry kind of rebounds here and normalizes post COVID. You know we're going to stretch our bandwidth here a little bit and get into some new category, so we're excited about that.

Speaker 1: 14:59

I'm excited to hear about that when you're ready to start announcing it. And I want to talk about the planter boxes for just a minute. If you were looking for a way to, if you were looking for a way to really dress up your hot tub, planter boxes, are it? It's in. Even if you do fake plants in them, they just they, but they are. I have people comment on mine all the time. They're like, oh, it looks so good, but it's, it's the plants, that's all it is is the plants, and it's just a good way.

Speaker 1: 15:31

So you tie it in though, so it matches the siding of the hot tub or it matches the step, and it just goes really well. So the planter boxes, I think, don't get enough credit. Personally, the biggest thing is you got this box in your backyard.

Speaker 2: 15:45

Okay, I'll just use that as a universal term for now.

Speaker 1: 15:47

It's a box.

Speaker 2: 15:48

It's got the box in your backyard and it's 36, 38, sometimes 40 inches tall. It stands out Right. So without dressing it up and making it part of your overall landscape and your backyard design, it can look like a sore thumb in a weird kind of way. Now, compliments to the hot tub industry. They've come a long way with making product look so much better than it used to back in the day, so it doesn't stand out as much. But if we can use different depths and heights like our planter box is slightly higher than our step and our table is even higher than our steps in the planter box so you have these varying designs it helps break up the eye a little bit and doesn't make this thing just stand out. And to your point, whether you're using it as a planter box, whether you're using it as a drink holder, whether you're using it as a towel holder, we've seen planter boxes get used for everything under the sun, and so they're just a nice addition to again accessorize around and really compliment the design of the overall backyard.

Speaker 1: 16:48

Oh, and it totally does, and I love the bars. In fact, I sat in my hot tub this morning before we got on and I was telling you that I'm gonna have to get some product because, it's just, I get a lot of comments on what's going on with my hot tub, but I am in the process of getting a new hot tub. Stay tuned, you guys will figure out what that's all about. But I have to have a bar 100% have to have a bar. When that happens, it's yeah, listen, hot tubs.

Speaker 2: 17:15

When I was on the manufacturing side, every single mold design meeting I was in, if there wasn't a heated debate over drink holders, it was already not gonna be a success. Like it was the most heated thing about. How do you contour? How do you fit? Where do you fit? What size cup do you fit? Is it for a wine glasses or for a beer or whatever? It doesn't matter, it's just like there's never enough cup holders and I always laughed as a hot tubber and then as a person designing hot tubs. Right, it's wet, they're angled. Funny. It's that close to the water where you're about to have a disaster of water care. Right, trying to get red water out of a hot tub. Enjoy that process. I'm pretty good at it. So there you go, you're a pro. Now can we just go like four inches the other way in complete safety? Put your drink right there. Flat, dry surface for anything, and it's just like why not have a bar? Why not have more exterior accessories?

Speaker 1: 18:16

Well, it just makes so much sense and I've been doing this for a really long time. I've been in the industry forever and I've sold thousands of hot tubs and I will say that is one of the first things that people ask about. And I sold one brand that's no longer in business anymore but they actually had a cup holder built inside of the hot tub and you would set your beer in there, and it sold so many hot tubs. I sold so many hot tubs because of that drink holder.

Speaker 1: 18:41

It was the drink holder that sold it. The funny thing was is the customer would show up three months later and be like, how do you love that hot tub in there? Like, oh gosh, I should have done this one instead because it fit me better. And my beer just gets hot sitting in that drink holder because it was actually in the water.

Speaker 2: 18:56

Reset yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:57

But it was funny because I did sell a lot of hot tubs because of that one particular feature. And again, if we just start putting these bars and these tables alongside these hot tubs and people can see that they can go with it with any hot tub and it's a quality built product like what you have, because there's a lot of chintzy stuff out there If you go to Amazon or whatever. I had somebody literally just email me yesterday should I buy this table or not? And I'm like no, I don't think I would buy it because it's not gonna last. You have to take it off every time you put the cover on and all the things and you've thought all the way through that. So it's a very functional product that you guys have to see it, that's would be my thing, and so your main, you want people to go to their local retailer and buy the product.

Speaker 2: 19:48

That's your plan, yep yeah, we all buy with our eyes, right? I mean you can show them a fine assortment of hot tubs, right? Most retailers have figured out showing one or two is not the recipe for success. You gotta have an assortment, right. Gotta have a price bandwidth that they can choose from as some sort of spectrum. And why not have all the other stuff there too?

Speaker 2: 20:05

If you've sold any accessory as a hot tub seller, try to sell a cover lifter without showing it. Best of luck, you know. By the way, it's five or six or $800 or thousands of dollars if you're going to the automated ones. If you don't show them how cool it is or how it works, they'll never buy it. Our products are no different than that. So ideally we do. We definitely want people to go to a retailer and see it. We know that's the recipe for success on that side. But as we grow the company, we know there's a lot of holes out there where people live in some peculiar places and they don't have a dealer right there. They ended up with some peculiar brand of hot tub that we need to do some research on to help them get what they want.

Speaker 2: 20:42

Our new website design was completely laid out to help make the online shopping experience.

Speaker 2: 20:47

We're talking to customers one to one through that and, believe it or not, a lot of our conversations start with requests from our website, and our first thing we always ask for is why don't you just send us a couple of pictures of your backyard? Let's see what we're working with and we can undoubtedly provide some kind of guidance and consultation relative to their setup. And again, this works with having our production manager, who's been around our company for 35 years. He's a day one employee. You got somebody like me who's been in the industry on every side of it. There's probably just things that we're gonna see that, as a consumer, even a dealer, you might not see the first time out, and so we can provide some suggestions based on what we do because, believe it or not, every situation is slightly unique. Right, it's not there's just a perfect 10 by 10 pad in every backyard. We're taking into consideration your landscape, we're taking into consider your weather, we're taking into consider your electrical and we're taking into consideration all of that.

Speaker 1: 21:44

And you do an incredible job and it's Thank you.

Speaker 1: 21:47

Again, I've been selling this particular brand forever and I'm super excited that you're now there to take it to the next level, because I know you very well. I know where you've been and what you're capable of doing and how you're going to grow this particular brand, and it already has taken off. You already have started doing things and I think you're going to see more and more of this in your local retail shop. I'm in the middle of South Dakota and that's pretty desolate and we have a couple of retailers. I don't know, you might even have five or six retailers in South Dakota, so you're getting out there.

Speaker 2: 22:23

Yeah, definitely, we've expanded our footprint significantly since last fall. I knew I came into this when the market was attracting from the COVID craze. Everybody wants a hot tub because we're all stuck at home and now the industry is normalizing this year. We're all still trying to figure out what that is, but one of the opportunities I saw on the company side of it was several things. That's what attracted me to this acquisition. But then as we grow our footprint, it was just going to come with horizontal growth. Right, we're going to get more on of our really good retailers that we have in the vertical growth. But there's so many dealers. South Dakota has five, six, seven of them right. North Dakota's got look at 50 states and everybody's got a lot of dealers, especially the more populated.

Speaker 2: 23:03

Again, being brand agnostic, we could really spread our footprint wide and some of the most complimentary calls I've had in the last couple of months are people are like why didn't I start selling your stuff sooner? They're ordering it. Then in their mind they're gambling a little bit. Oh, I'm finally going to show A and B. I'm just not sure people are going to pay for that. Two weeks later they're calling like I need that exact set, maybe the exact same way. And how fast can you get it here? Because we can't keep it on the floor. And that's not a breaking thing, it's a again the old adage of if you show it, they'll buy it, and we have definitely played right into that hand. So we're trying to get more and more on our showroom floors out there.

Speaker 1: 23:42

And the thing is like you sell this arounds where you go all the way around the hot tub and again you got some place to put your beverage on every seat, and then it looks so great. And I remember the first time I bought one of those I was like, oh, I'll never, I'll be stuck with this forever as a hot tub owner, and this was decades ago, and I was like I will never sell this. And it turns around. It doesn't. Not everybody's gonna buy them, but three out of 10 are yeah, minimally.

Speaker 2: 24:11

Yeah, if you're showing it, I have some really small dealer dealer customers for the retailers out there, really small dealer customers. Maybe they sell 50 hot tubs a year. They got a good little business going and I sometimes giggle at the I know a brand they sell. So maybe their average sale price is $10,000, maybe 12 on the high end, but they're selling $2,000 and $3,000 surround with their $10,000 hot tub. And I think one of the things that's happening in this market modification of buyers right, as everybody was recession worried was what's gonna happen with my money, what's gonna happen with the economy? We were definitely seeing less buyers, but the buyers that were buying didn't have less money. They're just being more conscientious of how they spend it.

Speaker 2: 24:57

So it's a justification, right Every time hey, do I really need a hot tub? Am I really gonna use this? Is it really gonna make me feel better? Am I gonna sleep better? All those things that we try to push, the wellness messaging of hot tubbing they're justifying that. I'm part of that justification process. Do I really need $2,000 in bars and steps and all this? They have the money.

Speaker 2: 25:20

If you're showing it, if you're talking about it, if you're making it part of the sales presentation they will justify. If you're holding up my brochure and you're trying to say, hey, we have some really nice steps, they're $1,200, I can get you these for $200, good luck. It's hard to justify that when you can't touch it and feel it, go stand on that $100 plastic step. Then go stand on our stuff. They will not make that leap.

Speaker 2: 25:46

So if you're a retailer or a seller out there and you're trying to figure out is A and B going to sell for me, it will not just sell on the brochure. Matter of fact. We don't really want you selling it that way. It's not going to do us justice. It's certainly not going to do you justice. So try bringing it in. Try giving people the choice when they have the choice. The buyers that are buying don't think they're tapping out at that $10,000 sale. They have the money. They're just being conscientious buyers saying I don't know if I really want to spend $18,000 or $16,000 on a high-end hot tub. It doesn't mean they don't have the money to do it. So the upsell is definitely there if you're willing to take the risk on showing it.

Speaker 1: 27:03

So what I could tell you on the as far as a hot tub or goes, or as a retailer goes if you have more of this product on the floor. So I'm doing marketing for several companies right now and I have one store that actually we went all in, we've got the whole gamut. We went through, we got the bars, we got the stairs, we got the stools, we got the decks around the swim spas and you walk in and it just it's a whole other layer. It's that store just looks totally like we're in business. We are going to sell you a hot tub today and you are going to love the hot tub and the customers are loving it.

Speaker 1: 27:45

It's not one of these things you could if I'm speaking to the retailers here it's not one of these things you can dabble in. You can't put on three, three, two-tier steps on the floor and think that you're going to sell the, sell all the stuff from there. That is definitely not the case. You do need to invest in it and do it and it, but it's dresses up your showroom, but it also is inventory that you can sell. So that's one way to look at it For the consumers out there that are listening. Ryan, this is a quality product. If you don't have a local retailer, you can definitely check out his website Again. That's W or A and B accessoriescom. You can definitely check that out there and links are in the show notes. But you can. You'll work with them. You'll help them get get what they need to be it might be. Would you put them in touch with the dealer at that point, or will you just help them directly?

Speaker 2: 28:33

We're always going to listen. We're going to be our best salespeople right. We know our products inside and out. We know the industry, we know products, we know everything. So we certainly like to start the process.

Speaker 2: 28:41

If they have a local retailer, though, that we can direct them to, hopefully to go see it right. Ideally, that's what we want to do. We are going to push them in that direction every single time right, because, again, the dealer's going to deliver the hot tub, they're going to put the steps together, they're going to do the whole gamut of quality white glove service for this customer. We want our stuff to be right along part of that package. That's going to be the best overall experience. If it is just a consumer and they don't have a local retailer and we can still help them out, sure, we're going to do that, but we have our footprints pretty wide. We generally have a dealer in every single market out there that we need to have a dealer in. So, outside of the super obscure ones, we're going to try and direct them to a local retailer to touch it and feel it.

Speaker 1: 29:24

And when you see it, it just it's so incredible it's. I know I was at the Hot Springs dealer conference this year and that's where you and I hooked up again and you were showing the new stuff. And it was. You were around all the swim spas and it was like, wow, I got to get this on the showroom. I have to get this on the showroom.

Speaker 2: 29:42

Just like you guys did with your deck in your one showroom. I had a dealer customer on the West Coast in January we started the conversation. They pulled the trigger in June, we got the deck shipped to them in July and he called me yesterday and said I had a customer that came in. We actually sold them one of your side entry swimspa steps. They came in, they saw the new deck and it's beautiful, it's absolutely gorgeous. And the customer goes keep the steps, man, I want that. And they ordered the exact replica of what was on the showroom floor of that deck for his own backyard.

Speaker 2: 30:14

And so the power of being able to see it, the power of going that extra level, that dealer he was giggling as he was telling me this is what he needed to order. It means it hasn't even been here a month yet and we've already sold one wise investment. And again, it does go back to customers. See it. It's not that we weren't selling those decks when he bought that side entry step, but that's all they were showing. When he comes back, sees that deck around and says you know what? Keep the step, I'll take the deck instead.

Speaker 1: 30:40

And once you see the deck, you have to, and especially and again me. You already made this point, but for me, when I was selling the swimspa's, I was too short to open and close the covers. I couldn't do it, so for me I would actually need a surround so that I could get it, get all the way around it, and then with these decks, it's just, it's awesome, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:03

The swim spa category is going to be one of our best opportunities for continued growth as well. There's just so many nuances of owning a swim spa. They're great products. I completely understand why people buy them. I think they have found their place in our market right and they're not going anywhere. But there's so much more that can be done on the accessory side to make them a more consumer friendly product for perpetuity. I think there's a lot of excitement in the beginning about how you're going to use it, and then the reality of the covers and the height and trying to make it look good in your backyard become very real things and they all need to be thought out, and some consumers do a fantastic job at it. Oh, there's not so much, and so we see a lot of opportunity in that marketplace.

Speaker 1: 31:45

You're going to do well with that. I can. If you go check out the gallery, it is you've already done just some fantastic stuff. What's your favorite product? What's the favorite product that you make and sell?

Speaker 2: 31:57

We started making last year and it's literally just, it's becomes 60% of what we're building it feels like these days is wider steps, and when I say wider, I'm talking about the depth. Okay, front to back, a two board step is like the standard width out there, 11 inches or so. So each of the tiers you're standing on is 11 inches. And as we started to think about this more and more, with our demographic getting older, the environments that we're in and just overall user friendliness, why who came up with this thing that hot tub steps had to be so narrow and so hard to step on? So we started building a three board top or a four board top step and it has taken off like we just could have never imagined, for a nominal upcharge, people to see so much more functionality from that step. Hey, we'll build you a standard two-tier step all day long, but for a little bit more. Go three board, go four board top.

Speaker 2: 32:59

And I'm starting to work directly with some of the manufacturers out there who have all kind of caught onto this and just said that is a no-brainer. Why do steps have to be so small and narrow? It just doesn't make sense. I put a post up one time about it on Facebook about the average foot size in North America for a male is eight and a half inches and females five and a half inches, and the standard step is 11 inches or not even 10 and a half. Just think about that footprint you're trying to step on when you're wet, cold, dark, like it's just. Oh, and, by the way, we made it really narrow for you. It's only 30 inches wide, so good luck landing on that, as if we don't complain about internal hot tub steps not being big enough already. Why are we making the problem worse? On the outside we can do whatever we want to do, so that has, hands down, become one of my favorite products to build.

Speaker 1: 33:47

Oh for sure, and it looks sharp too. And then you do the piano key steps as well. Are those still really big popular?

Speaker 2: 33:55

Definitely Piano keys has been around forever, I would actually say. As manufacturers get to more horizontal paneling and wider paneling, our lateral steps have sort of superseded the piano key steps, Just because they compliment the siding that the hot tub manufacturers have chosen a little bit better. So we're actually building more lateral and but gosh, we still get. Especially when you're starting to deal with the radius corners and things like that, lateral can be a little bit more challenging. We're working through some of those kind of design nuances that we'd like to improve on.

Speaker 1: 34:27

So, and one of the things that I love and when I get my new set, it's gonna be the I'm gonna have it the handrail. So it's a sturdy, solid handrail and it just looks like it belongs. It's not, it doesn't look like an afterthought because a lot of the handrails that are out there definitely look like afterthoughts and the beauty of the handrail on the step is you don't have to take it apart to get into the work on the equipment. It's fantastic.

Speaker 2: 34:51

Yep, yep, yeah, our extra heavy duty handrail where we actually inset it into the step itself. You're putting some massive bolts in there to hold it on to. It's got a big three by three post. So again, as our demographics aging and who we're selling hot tubs to, we need to be very cognizant of safe entry and exit from a wet, slippery device and we need to make sure that they got something to hold on to their feet, have a nice place to land or there's some grip on that step. It's not. We're not making it more dangerous than it has to be, and I think that's where our products again varying height, heavy duty handrails. We're really gonna think all that through, depending on who we're talking to and working with, to make sure that not only does it look good that's super important but it's also very safe and easy to use.

Speaker 1: 35:37

So well and it looks awesome. One of the things that I'm gonna say and that's probably the biggest thing that you've got going for you is your product looks amazing. You've definitely got the design down to that and you, coming from the other side of it you coming from a hot tub manufacturer you've done a really good job. I don't think you offer every single color that's out there, but you definitely offer complimenting colors and it's just you're keeping your SKUs down, but you're also making it look good.

Speaker 2: 36:10

Yep, and I was a business owner. The SKUs are always too many. I can tell you that much. We have probably over 5,000 SKUs in our system. We do offer 12 colors. We have found a real liking to people, liking the two tone look. I would say that's probably one of the biggest things that we've gotten some traction with in 2023. And I only see that getting more popular as hot tub styles change a little bit. If I could get every manufacturer in a room and we could agree on a corner radius and a color, it would be the best thing that ever happened to me as a business owner. But that'll never happen. That's not gonna happen, no.

Speaker 2: 36:45

But as we have 12 colors, listen, hot tub siding has changed too. It's not just about being brown, one brown and everybody goes with the same thing. Manufacturers are trying to find their differentiation in unique profiles, unique colors, unique everything, and we are constantly trying to keep up with what's happening there. Understanding how that cycle works again, coming from my history, makes it a lot easier. I know the manufacturers are working with. I keep my ear close to the ground on what's changing, when they're changing, how they're changing, so that we are running alongside them, and I think color is a very subjective thing too right, I've seen people pick. I have a brown hot tub and they pick gray siding because they want something to accent it.

Speaker 2: 37:31

Hot tub covers are changing. So now you have the profile of the hot tub, you have the corner of the hot tub and you have the cover of the hot tub, and in some manufacturers those are three different colors, so I don't have to match it perfectly. We have to compliment it. And again, color being very subjective to the eye in your overall backyard design, we're never gonna be dead on. And again, I'm using HDPE, which is polyethylene. Hot tub manufacturers are using polystyrene typically, so they're two totally different plastics. On top of that, they're similar. They're very similar, but they are different. And so trying to be Well, you match that pretty well for that.

Speaker 1: 38:10

if that's the case, yeah to be exact, match impossible.

Speaker 2: 38:14

And if you look at some of the other inexpensive steps out there blow molded, injection molded they can't make that plastic match either. It's gonna be close, but it's never gonna be perfect. So we're all playing in the same arena and we just need to be very complimentary. So that is our focus.

Speaker 1: 38:30

And it just it looks good and the two-tone. I think that I honestly think, in going back to it showing or that showing it sells it, you started introducing that. You started bringing in the two-tone when you were showing up at shows and more on the retail side of things and we all love it and so now we're showing it and it looks good and I think that's why that's going, but it looks higher in being two-tone, definitely more as a custom product.

Speaker 2: 38:57

Every single day we get the question how much more is it to go with the Lux? Lux, that's what we call ours right, if you wanna go Lux? All that means is we're gonna add a black base to whatever top board you choose and every single person thinks what's the upcharge for Lux? There's no upcharge. We offer the same for simplicity. It's the same price across the board. But it really does enhance the look. And listen, manufacturers are going to these bigger toe kicks, the base of the hot tub, these to be these little tiny black base around it. Now they're four inches or six inches. They're going to black covers, they're going to black corners. So the black siding of your stuff just pulls all of that in and it's just a beautiful accent, exactly, yep.

Speaker 1: 39:35

And that's brilliant on your part, because you are correct. More and more that's coming. We've had a few brands that have gone to black covers. Only that is your option. You get a black cover or you get a black cover, and so you need something to pull that together. You need and whether it's a step or a planner or a deck or surround or any of those things, you just need something to pull that black together, because you may have a gray cabinet or a real light cabinet, and the contrast really does look really sharp when you put that together.

Speaker 2: 40:10

So that's amazing. I totally agree with you. I see a lot of people just again. They're trying to look for that kind of blended look in their backyard and having something that is just one color is almost a little overwhelming right. And then the grays don't quite match, so everything seems to blend together.

Speaker 2: 40:26

When you're doing the black as a complementary color too, I see that getting it's already. I don't know. It's been one of the best things we did in 2023. I see it growing in 2024. I also think that it's allowed us to offer more colors Some of the more obscure colors, like a mahogany or a tan, that we're slowly getting phased out by manufacturers but are still definitely prominent enough out there. We're getting those calls and we're like we just don't have that. What it's allowed us to do is bring in one profile of that one color that we can now do the top tread with and then compliment it in black. So it's actually allowed us to offer more colors than having to try and reduce those skews and say, listen, we just can't offer that anymore because there's so few. So we've heard from dealers anyway that they really love that. So I think we're gonna continue to see traction in that area.

Speaker 1: 41:14

Yeah, I think it's gonna do really well for you and I'm excited for you on that. So what if you could wish any new Hot Tub owner to buy your accessory? So I'm a brand new Hot Tub owner and I need the best accessories. What are you going to recommend to me?

Speaker 2: 41:33

There's always two things that are just a no-bringer to us. Number one go with the widest step possible. So if your Hot Tub is 84 inches, 87 inches, 89 inches, right, let's go with standard 89 inches front to back, nice square. And you say I just really want a beautiful step for that we're always gonna take into that radius corner. Okay, so let's say it's a 10 inch radius corner. We're gonna build you a 69 inch step that's gonna cover the full front and it's gonna look beautiful. It really hides and adds to the overall depth of the project. So go with a wider step. You can never go wrong with a wider step.

Speaker 2: 42:03

And number two is a bar or table on one or both sides Again place to put your towel, place to put your drinks, place to put your cell phone, Put a Bluetooth speaker if you don't have music on your Hot Tub. Table and wider step are always the two things we're gonna recommend right off the get go. And then it really just comes down to kind of the secondary things. A storage bench hey, I want a place to keep my water care products when I'm out there. I don't wanna have to carry them in and out, I don't wanna keep them in the house. We make a beautiful storage bench that you can put all that stuff in tie in that same color scheme. Some people even use it as a step, so we have a storage option as well. So I would say big step.

Speaker 2: 42:42

Number one, table number two and storage capability as number three.

Speaker 1: 42:47

Yeah, that's gonna. Really. I'm picturing that in my own backyard right now is what I'm doing is like yeah, I could do that. I could do that and I'm gonna put that storage because I got a little cheap thing right now that I could do all of that and it would look really sharp and it just it elevates your backyard.

Speaker 2: 43:05

Yeah, so much. And again, we wanna make Hot Tubing as easy as possible. Right, we all know that if it's easy to access and they're seeing the benefits of the wellness from it, they're gonna use it more often. And you don't get the benefits of a Hot Tub that just sits back there and run. You have to use it. So, getting in and out, making it easier, having a place to put your phone easier, having a place to store your water care products easier. If a Hot Tub is complicated, people don't use it. So we have to make it as easy as possible for them to become regular Hot Tubbers. And when they become regular Hot Tubbers, they become passionate about it and they tell other people and that's where the industry continues to get traction. Our products can be a wellness product but you have to use them. You do have to and listen. I'm guilty of that.

Speaker 2: 43:48

I lived in Southern California. The weather was always perfect and my hot tub was in the corner of my backyard Not a good design, right? When I lived in Minnesota it was right out the door because there was no choice. It was life or death. So you're not going to hot tub and run across the yard in the winter when it's 10 below out. But I would sneak out there Didn't even matter, it was accessible. We want to create more hot tubbers and our products help complement it. They make it easier to use, they make it more enjoyable and we know we've got a hot tubber for life then.

Speaker 1: 44:17

I do have a comment. We have Robert Buckwald I don't know if this is good afternoon from hot and rainy Florida. I have a quick question about the material that you use regarding fading and hold up to chemicals.

Speaker 2: 44:32

Yep, perfect question. So that is one reason we have stuck with HDPE high density polyethylene. Again for the plastic nerds out there, hdpe is a very weather resistant product. A lot of times people ask us was it composite, is it? And they think about trex decking or something that's more familiar with their composite world. And the downside of that type of stuff is it has wood fillers inserted into it and it's also much lighter. So if you go look at the side of a trex deck, you'll see their intricate design, you'll see the wood fibers and you'll see the cutouts.

Speaker 2: 45:04

All of that is a moisture barrier, a non-moisture barrier where you're going to get intrusion of water. Hdpe is a solid resin product so it's going to be extremely stable to UV. It's going to be extremely stable and hot and cold. You're not going to get the warping, the bending and the twisting that you can get with other composite materials. So the longevity of it has come a long way. Polystyrene, like I was mentioning before, the hot tub siding is made out of, is very similar, but it's a little bit more brittle. So for steps and tables, we try to stay away from that side of the plastic world, and so HDPE is where it's at. We sell all over the world. We sell in Arizona, where it's 110, 120 consistently. We sell down in Florida, where your moisture and humidity can be just an absolute disaster for some products. So when you're building with 100% HDPE, which is a recycled plastic, commercially-grade recycled plastic, we have very strong performance over the longevity of ownership of your product.

Speaker 1: 46:04

So that's awesome. So how does it do in the cold? Because I have had some steps in the past that were beautiful, but the second you had to move them in the freezing cold they would snap because they're frozen. How does this do with that?

Speaker 2: 46:22

Even better. Again, that's what you're talking about right now. I can already see, I already know what step you're talking about. That's typically a polystyrene step OK, or something less expensive. And injection molded or again, blow molded are much lighter, thinner plastics. They use a lot of air, which makes them lighter, which makes them more affordable. Totally get it and you can still get some really good structural integrity out of them.

Speaker 2: 46:42

But durability-wise, whether it's a snow load or it's the freezing and the cracking, hdpe is going to be super resistant to that. It's actually almost a more soft material. Restyrene is a really brittle, hard plastic. Hdpe is very soft so it's almost impossible to crack it. As a matter of fact, I can't tell you if we've ever had one step come back that's been cracked due to something like that where the other products will get more brittle. So I always think about like kid, you're back there with a soccer ball or a football and that thing just comes slamming into it. Hdpe you're never going to have to worry about that thing breaking. That's impossible. It's just it's on the softer side of the resin. It's very durable in nature.

Speaker 1: 47:24

And that's awesome. And again, I've been selling this particular product for 20 years, even back when it was real wood. I can't. I don't think I've ever seen one. I've ever had an issue with Ever. I don't know if I've ever had a warranty claim on A&B product Ever.

Speaker 2: 47:39

What is?

Speaker 1: 47:40

the warranty, just out of curiosity.

Speaker 2: 47:41

We do a limited liability warranty for lifetime limited liability and really it's all we're trying to protect against is more misuse and abuse. That's really the only thing that can happen to it. We get people that will install products, sometimes in a peculiar environment, but for the most part it's pretty easy to stand behind a product that is meant to last. It was meant for the outdoors. I think people are probably more familiar with HDPE than they realize. If you're in any public park, public camping facility, all of those tables and chairs and trash cans and a public pool that's got a tall receptacle nine times out of 10, that is HDPE and any high end resort. We do have a hospitality division so we build massive umbrella cabinets and things like that that are down in Florida, down in Texas. Hot heat, humidity, that just hold up really well. So this stuff is built for the outdoors. It's really not even an indoor product. It is meant for the outdoors.

Speaker 1: 48:36

And again, I've been selling it for decades and I don't think I've ever had one, anything I don't. There's never been. This doesn't match. There's never been. I'm missing a piece when it comes to putting it together. There's never been any of that in all the years that I've sold the product, so it's got a long history of quality.

Speaker 2: 49:01

Yeah, we like to tell people that our right, our step will generally out of your hot tub. I mean, you're going to be replaced. Yeah, you're going to replace your hot tub before you replace your step there. That's unequivocal. And I'm not saying the hot tub is going to fall apart. Whether it's a design change or you just want to upgrade, 10 years down the road, 15, guess what? Our step will still be looking just like it did before. Yeah, very UV resistant, very weather resistant and it was built for all climates. We sell these all over the world. We have a China importer, we sell the Europe, our base is North America, but we do export product all over the place.

Speaker 1: 49:33

That's awesome. I'm so happy for you. I'm so excited for what you've got going on and I've just I've known you forever and it's exciting to hear I'm going to get to have this hour long conversation about how this company's going for you and it's you guys. If you're looking for some stuff, ryan is the guy. I've known him forever and he does what he says and says what he does, and this is a quality company and you are going to do be nothing but happy if you get his product. I promise you that his customer service is A plus.

Speaker 2: 50:04

So I appreciate that greatly. As I was telling you not long ago, I come from a world-class manufacturer and that was instilled in everybody that worked there. It didn't matter what you did. So I've implemented that same mentality with my smaller team. Right, we're much, much smaller. We don't use robotics. We have craftsmen. I employ craftsmen that can build anything and they take great pride in what they do and we have a world-class mentality. You don't have to be a multi-billion dollar corporation to think world-class. You can think world-class in everything you do, and whether that's dealing with customers, whether that's building products, it's across our company. We try to think world-class.

Speaker 1: 50:44

And you're doing it. You've been doing it forever, but and you were telling me a really good story earlier about how that has trickled down and the whole staff has taken that mentality that you're definitely world-class and there's not a doubt in my mind. That's what you are instilling and creating. And mark my words there's gonna be a time that you are gonna be one of those billion dollar companies. I see it coming.

Speaker 2: 51:09

I do. I hope so. It's not our primary focus, that's for sure. So, listen, I was very fortunate to step into a company that had a, at the time, 34 year trajectory building great stuff, taking care of their customers at your point, do what we say and say what we do, and we wanna continue that.

Speaker 2: 51:26

And it's hard to have a growth mentality without the right people. People often ask me what's been the greatest thing about becoming an entrepreneur, and it's always the people, not only our dealer customers and our end user customers, of course, but it's the people we employ and the pride they take in our work and the pride they take in our brand. We send ahead t-shirts made, and guy got stopped three different times at a park when he was walking, just asking what do you do and where do you build that? And I'm thinking we're a hot tub company, Like that's where people know as far as making hot tub products, and so they take great pride in that and I take great pride in those people because without them we would not be who we are, and so we're gonna continue that drive and we're gonna continue that focus to provide for, hopefully, another 30 years, great products and great customer service, and all done by craftsmen and great people.

Speaker 1: 52:17

It's. I'm excited to see where this goes, and my goal is to help everyone become a happy hot tub owner. This is one of those products that I know will make you a happy hot tub owner, so if you've got the chance, definitely check them out Again. I'll throw that website up one more time. It's a and baccessoriescom. You guys definitely wanna check that out and if you're a retailer, get in touch with Ryan. He would love to help you out. I know that you will not regret putting these products on your floor. I promise you won't. I've been selling them for years and it's a good thing.

Speaker 1: 52:52

Guys, thank you so much for joining us. We are gonna wrap this up. Believe it or not, that was an hour already. I knew you and I would have no problems at all. No, so no, I wasn't worried about that at all. But, guys, make sure you pick up a copy of the book Hot Tub Clarity. You can find that on Amazon. Join the private Facebook page. Clean your Filter. That's getting bigger and bigger all the time and I totally appreciate each and every one of you and I will see you next week. Have a good week, if I can find. Okay, I think.