- What You Need To Know Before Buying A Hot Tub - Post Pandemic Edition

Hey everyone! Today I welcome my guest John Difiore AKA Hot Tub John; we are going to talk about buying a hot tub in the post-pandemic economy.  Many are looking to buy a hot tub as a means of staying healthy and entertained. I'm Jacque, the Hot Tub Lady. And in this video, We are going to tell you what you need to know before making your purchase. From budgeting to installation, Now is a great time to buy a hot tub, given the current pandemic situation. By knowing what to look for, you'll surely get the best hot tub for your needs. We'll give you all the tips you need to make an informed purchase! got you covered! So sit back, relax, and enjoy!   

Hot Tub John and Jacque, The Hot Tub Lady, are going to discuss what to look for when it comes to buying a hot tub in 2023.  The industry has settled down a little bit, and inventory is once again available.  We will discuss what buyers should be aware of in the new economy.  

 Notes on John Difiore I am the owner of Fun Outdoorliving located in Charlotte, North Carolina. We have four retail store locations serving the Charlotte and surrounding areas of Greensboro/ Winston Salem NC, and Rockhill SC. The product lines we offer in our retail stores are hot tubs, Swim spas, outdoor kitchens, fire pits, grills, and patio furniture.
Our company has a unique approach to the retail market by offering full-service design and build to fully integrate our products into a FUN and functional outdoor living environment. We are a licensed general contractor that focuses on the backyard. We specialize in hardscape paver/stone patios with retaining walls, decks, porches, outdoor kitchens, and fireplaces.
We are a one-stop shop for your outdoor living needs.

John. can be found at  https://funoutdoorliving.com/.   Or his Facebook page is:  https://www.facebook.com/funoutdoorliving
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Hi! My name is Jacque The Hot Tub Lady! And if you're a hot tubber who wants to turn your hot tub into the happiest spot in your home, then this is the place for YOU! On this channel, I upload videos every Wednesday day surrounding topics such as what hot tub to buy, what is the best chemical system to use, and tips and tricks along the way.

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Transcript

0:02

Hey, hey, hot tubers. Welcome to the podcast Tub Talk with the hot tub lady. And I am your host, Jackie Johnson. And today we have a super special guest. His name is John Defo from Fun Outdoor Living down in North Carolina. And let's bring him on right now. Hey John, how are you? How you doing? Over there? Doing very, very good. So how's your day going? You've been, you've been kind of crazy. You know, it's Monday, it's a rain day, so we're scrambling. Delivery crews are, are changing schedules. Oh yeah. And I'm trying to keep the product dry that's ready to go out.. Easier said than done. We at least you get rain. We got snow and ice, so that makes, makes for I'd much rather be here. Goodness. Yeah. That makes for a big, big challenge for us. So anyway, so how's it going? It's going well. Thank you. Appreciate you having me on. Well I appreciate you coming on. I know you're crazy busy. I mean, we've talked a couple times today and you've had a lot going on, so it's been been nuts for you. So I guess today our topic is, is how to buy a hot tub in the post pandemic economy Economy. So what are your thoughts on that? I could say first and foremost, be careful of who you deal with. Know who you're going to have to deal with in the long run. The pandemic has given us all so many challenges for sure. Over the yeah, just over, over the supply chain. Of course pricing changes, but, you know, labor factors have always been an issue. We're seeing it in everything that we buy. I mean, I think, you know, if you went to go buy a car, you couldn't get ahold of one, price went up and, and when you do get the car, it might be missing a computer chip. Mm-hmm. That they're gonna put in later. You know, talk to you know, get a warranty part, no problem. Well, in the pandemic, And we're, we're stuck with supply chain issues. Right. And, and supply chain issues mean they're, they're sending us different pumps or, or different control packs. a lot of manufacturers in, in different industries that we always have is what are we gonna do if it breaks, you know, later What happens if the manufacturer you bought it from doesn't remember or doesn't have record so much of what that particular serial number item had installed in it? They don't know which one you have and that is happening. I mean, I don't know if you, if you guys ended up bringing on any different brands. I, I'm a hot Springs girl. I, I, I bleed blue. But we did actually bring on some other brands, and I can tell you that from one truck to the next truck, it would have different equipment. it would have a gecko pack and then it would have a b Bella pack. And then it would have, and, and to the, to the consumers out there listening, that doesn't sound like a big deal to you guys, but for those of us on the back end that are taking care of that, that's a huge deal. I mean, that's absolutely a gigantic deal. And if things are different, you've gotta be able to, when when you call me and say, Hey, I need, need you to come service my hot tub, I need to be able to load in my service truck everything that I think you're gonna need. And if I don't know what you have, and more importantly, if the manufacturer doesn't know what you have, we got a problem. So I don't, I don't know how, how that's gone for you, but for us it has been a little bit of a challenge. Oh yeah. A challenge because we'll, Have to go there and you know, potentially we have the part on the truck. We, we try to think ahead of what it could be. But it's a challenge because you just can't keep everything on the truck. And it's, it's unfortunately takes more time to get the customers hot tub up and running again or whatever, you know, you're trying to fix. And, you know, what really concerns me is how these things work together long term over the years to come. There's a reason that products are engineered to work together with amperage and vaults and, and, and loads on certain, on certain items. And how they're gonna work for long term is, is really how they're initially engineered and designed with the best of intentions. But you start messing with that and changing the recipe around it tastes different. Did they Right. Buy a lot. So that, that's a good analogy. That's a good way to put that, that the recipe no longer works the way you start. Right? That's, those cookies don't taste like cookies anymore. Tastes like dirty hot tub water. Cause the filter's not filtering, not, not working correctly at all. So that's right. So, yeah, I mean, so it's, it's definitely been, been a challenge. I mean, so you're, you're down there in the Carolinas. Why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself, about your business, what's going on down there, and just how you guys have handled the whole pandemic and everything that's going on, and just now what are you doing now that the economy has, we're in post pandemic economy. What's, you know, where are you at? What are you doing? Tell me all the things. Tell me everything. Okay. Well I like long walks on the beach. No, I'm kidding., I, I honestly, I, I started my business in, in 2004 with my wife who was you know, looking for a, a, a job as a, a mom's job, if you will. By appointment only. She was selling hot tubs out of a warehouse by appointment only. And, and we have grown the business since 2006 when I joined her full time to we have four retail store locations. Three of 'em in the Charlotte North Carolina market, and one of 'em in the Winston Salem, Greensboro market. So we have retail stores that offer, of course, hot tubs by hot spring. We have patio furniture, fire pits. Outdoor kitchens are a huge part of our business that we actually build nine standard styles of outdoor kitchens and then offer. Custom designs we sell grills in the store and with the hot tubs, outdoor kitchens fire pits, we have grown to offer a full line of design build patios, decks, porches to fully integrate these retail items. That's awesome. Into the backyard. It's because everybody wants that. I can, I can tell you from, from my standpoint, cuz we're, my store is just hot tubs and saunas. That's, that's all we do at my location. I've, I've been involved in other stores that do patio furniture and, and swimming pools and that type of thing. But everybody is looking for the full package. They're, they're looking for that backdoor escape. And I was on, on your website earlier and you are doing some amazing things. That whole kitchen hardscape back back patio thing is, is wow. I mean, and you're, it looks fantastic. So, I mean, how is that business going? I bet it just exploded for sure. We were doing really well throughout the years since we started the company, obviously. The recession in 2008 gave us a little bit of a challenge, but overall working hard through that. And then on the up rise, Year after year and, and staying you know, focused on quality and high level of customer service has always been our our, our focus, the pandemic first couple of months. Super scary for all of us. Right? For sure. You know, scary. Not just on a business sense, just scary as to the unknown of, you see all these zombie movies and you're like, oh my goodness, is this the day? Is this it? Right? But you were scared to death to catch it. You were, you were so scared and Yeah, a lot of folks that you know, took sick and didn't make it due to underlying issues or, or just how their body handled it. It was very sad case out there. But you know, through the pandemics I guess, I don't know if you call it leveling, but more of okay, we understand it and, and we can grow further together as a community by being cautious. It, it really pushed the folks that were forced to work from home Spending more time at home, looking around their house saying, Hey, this place looks like, needs a little facelift. And we helped it, it, it really, it, it was amazing for us to see the number of calls coming in and the demand and you know, one of the first articles out, I think as all of us in hot tub industry, remember swimming pools and hot tubs do not spread. Covid was like, part of the headlights we're like, really? Huh? That's amazing. Everybody should have a hot tub. No covid here. We were pretty excited about that. I do remember that it was, and those of us as a community, we definitely connected with each other more because you didn't know where else to go and we were just working with each other with what works, what doesn't work, and. Posting on Facebook and YouTube and, and wherever just to talk about it and try to spread how great hot tubs were for you and still are for you. But the Covid definitely helped with that. I mean, it, it took it to the top of the want list, I think. Yeah, it created maybe some fear of missing out. It certainly created the awareness of, Hey, hot tub's pretty cool and I can have some place to relax in my backyard. I mean, the health benefits that go with it been a message we've been trying to share with people for years. And we'll still continue to share those messages. But as you know, pandemic had affected our business in a way that it became a high demand for all the products that we sell. So, hot tubs, swim spas yes, high demand for those. And then of course, full. Backyard remodels that people were living working from home full time as, as you know, a whole unit of family, they needed more room to expand. Right. And, and you supplied that obviously. We did. We did it well. We, we really worked hard to keep up with demand and, and not so much just demand, but quality of customer service. It was a very difficult task for us. Supply chains were limited through the pandemic for uh, you know, as, as you saw, they, they were limited for things that we had as one of the hardest things was not being able to give people what they wanted when they wanted it. For years, we're like, please look forward to doing business with you. Please come buy, buy something from us, and we, we deliver it right away. Now they're like, Hey, please sell me something. I can't deliver it right away., right. So backwards. It's, it was hard because it's, it's, it was one of the hardest, I mean, so I've been doing this forever and, you know, I started in 2003 with my, with, when I first started the industry. And so I, you know, didn't do very well over the, the 2008. Recession I actually got sick and then that, that added to it. And we ended up in, ended up in Sioux Falls, which actually ended up being one of the greatest things in the world. But I had to go through that, that economy. And then this was, in some ways almost worse cuz I'm all about let's take care of the customer as are you. I mean, you're, let's, let's take care of the customer, let's do whatever we can. And all of a sudden, everybody, I mean absolutely everybody wanted a hot tub. And there we are trying to, trying to sell hot tubs and telling people they have to wait a year to get one. And it was hard. And you had to keep, you had to keep that communication line open so they know that you never forgot about'em and things were, were going on. And like you said, the fear of missing out was happening. And you know, one of the things, and this is kind of what, and what I wanted to k kind of get into was. You know, you and I both sell Watkins products and, and we, the great thing about that, that particular, this particular company is they always told us exactly what was going to happen and when it was going to happen. So when they would tell you it was gonna be a year out, it was gonna be a year out. And that was great cause I wasn't getting that with all my other manufacturers. And, but it's been fantastic and things have been really, really good. And if they couldn't get a piece or a part, they would, they would communicate that with us and we could communicate that with our customers and that was a big deal. Can I say that absolutely everything was perfect during this entire time? No, I can't. Was was there a few issues along the way, but the beauty of it has been is that Hot Springs, if, if they have an issue, they own it and they take care of it and they do fix it and. You know, as people are out shopping post pandemic, this is one of the things that we really have to have to take advantage of and look at when you're out, out looking at things, is if there's a problem, because nobody's perfect. We, we all want to be perfect, but nobody's perfect. But if there's a problem, who's going to be the dealer or the manufacturer that's gonna take care of you? I mean, it's, it's such a big deal. I mean, give me your thoughts or opinions or, well, first and foremost I did bring in a brand X, if you will mm-hmm. through the pandemic. I'm a hot spring blue blood as well. For good reason. I've had experiences with other brands prior to becoming a hot Spring dealer, and I can tell you there's quality in all levels of the Watkins manufacturing. Experience from me being a dealer to my service techs, to my customer service support across the board. And, you know, when we talked earlier about, you know, parts and pieces that we don't know what brand X put in there and if it's gonna work right? And if the, you know, the load's calculated, right? If the engineering, if the recipe tastes different, I'd say but I could tell you with Watkins, not only was their communication about, Hey, I can't get you this product for X amount of time, and it was clear and transparent, but moreover, they didn't substitute things right that were going to compromise the long term quality and effects of their product. I, I spent a lot of time kind of looking through, you know, what we received, how we received it were there some, some issues from Watkins in, in some areas. Yeah. And, and it wasn't necessarily something that, you know, they could have controlled, but hey, it's, it's a ripple effect and the end result is I got the thing in my hand and I had to take care of whatever panel that didn't quite fit on right. Or, or whatever it may have been to rectify it before it went out. But the point I make is that they did not substitute or sacrifice quality over quantity at any point. No. And that's really what separates the you know, the, the good from the great, and I think they're great and I don't wanna start touting Watkins, but you know, credit is due where credits do. Let's get back to what's important here. US , no, overall, the the pandemic experience, you know, and quality control. Was was part of it that, you know, labor wasn't trained. There was, there were, you know, stretched available workforces out there because folks had to stay home. Whether they had, you know, some, some folks at the house that were sensitive or, or very susceptible to you know, covid and, and the effects of it. So they, they had to stay home. They couldn't come to work. They had to hire people that weren't experienced. Then the people that were training them may not have been as experienced mm-hmm.. So all the best of intentions sometimes go right out the window with all of that. But you know, the manufacturers that stood in and made sure that the product that was being pumped out the door wasn't, again, quantity over quality is, is the big difference there. And overall, , you know, when you look at the overall long term effects of, of the pandemic, yeah. There were shortages of product. There were long delays, like you said, 12 months shipping. I mean, the cost of shipping went through the roof. Oh my gosh. That was crazy. Yeah. That, that took our product cost. I mean, you're, you're talking to difference of 25% cost increase from the beginning of the pandemic to the end of pandemic. Right. Is is my best guess. Sitting here. I didn't have him put a pencil to paper, but it sounds about right in some, in some of the products. Yeah. It's nuts. At least, I mean, it, it, who's this, who's this economist telling me there's only 8% inflation. They are not adding this stuff upright . They are not . They are not. I mean, and you know, the big thing with our products is it's big and it's huge and it's heavy and it takes people and it takes, you know, you can only get 12 hot tubs on a. No matter what you do, you can only get 12 hot tubs on a truck. That's all we can ship. The cost of shipping a truck has, like you said, 20, I think it's more than 25%. I, I, I'd say pretty close to 30% more in what we were paying. And yeah, when I add like the whole product in my head, it's kind of like 25, maybe 30%. Yeah, you may be right, but shipping to your point, I think is more than 25% increased by far. They're, they're really, really you know, affected by gas prices, labor prices, and then supply and demand killed it. Shipping has gone through the roof for everything. Right. And, you know, and that trickles down to, to dealers as well. I mean, we have to pay more, more to get them delivered. We, we have to pay our help more because there is no help. And so the help you do have, you have to take really good care of, and you have to pay more to get 'em in the door. And they're big and they're heavy, and cost in general have just gone up. And so again, when it comes to you shopping for a hot tub, you need to find that dealer that has been around and knows what they're doing and can take care of things. And I, and for, for me to say that we're not struggling, I, I'm, that's a lot. I mean, we're trying really hard to. To get things taken care of. It's going well, and, and we've got a good base base underneath us and we're getting there. But it's, it's a challenge every single day. And so if you're just going and checking out some fly by night place, or heaven forbid, a, a show that shows up in your market to to buy a hot tub from them, not only are you gonna struggle with getting it delivered, but once it is delivered, who's gonna take care of it? You know, if you're doing a big box and there is import hot tubs there, starting to show up. And that is scary in, in my world. I, I mean, to me that is, that is a really scary thing that people need to, consumers need to take a, a really good look at. I do think if, if we start getting a lot of import hot tubs, I think there, there's something to kind of take a look at there, there are concerns to be had out there. You know, these you, you mentioned these products that were, you know, being offered. You know, look at Brand X. We started talking about, you know, what's going to be put into the hot tub. We don't know it as consumers. Hey, it's a box. It has a cabinet, it has, it holds water for how long? We don't know , but it holds water. Yeah. But when you, when you look at. Service after the sale, even, even with the best of intentions, some of these, some of these smaller dealers that are out there in our marketplaces that took whatever manufacturer's brand was available to them so they could stay in business. And then those parts are not available later. You know, as a consumer, we hope that you didn't get stuck with something like that. And by the way, those options are still out there and plentiful today. So, you know, buyer beware of where you get it from today. And if you, if you do need service after the sale, you wanna make sure you're dealing with a company that's that's committed to be there for you no matter what the scenario is. Whatever my brand X is, no matter what my challenges are, I will figure out how to make sure that hot tub works and performs for you for years to come. But you know, we started to say earlier that Watkins was not one that I really had to worry about, which is great. I mean, they have 20 year. Part availability. Mm-hmm. on whatever they put out as a standard. And they haven't changed from that. No. Even, even during all this, when, and this isn't as big a deal in your market as is in my market, but cuz we do get really cold here. I couldn't get heaters last year, last winter, I couldn't get heaters. If a heater went out in a hot tub, I couldn't get it. I could get the Watkins ones. It wasn't overly fast, but I was able to get 'em. If you had a, a 17 year old hot tub, I was still able to, able to get heaters for you. If you had Brand X and you came in and said, Hey, I need a heater for my hot tub. I just, it just didn't happen. What do you do? Give 'em a tarp at a space heater Here, put this over there until I can find something for you so it doesn't freeze. Exactly. I mean, it was, we were literally doing bucket heaters and just, just to get 'em through the winter and there were some that we didn't get, get back to until May, June, and, and we did keep them alive. Yeah, it's tough environment Actually couldn't get chlorine talking about shortages of stuff, . Right. I mean, it was, it was whoever would've thought that the United States of America would be struggling to get stuff if you, if you would've told me any time in my life up until this point that this is what was going to happen to us, I would've told you, you were nuts. There is absolutely no way we're ever gonna have to worry about any of this stuff. And yeah, why did we get a, did we get an awakening? For sure. But we did, you know, they say you know, it makes you understand your mortality that you are not bulletproof and, and you need to be prepared for the worst and, expect the best, but be prepared for the worst. I always say. And you you know, you look at hot tub brands out there across the industry, lots of good ones. Lots of unknown. And again, even the best of intentions, as we said kind of went out the window with the need to fulfill mm-hmm., that, that high demand. And, and that's kind of what we started talking about is to, you know, be careful of, you know, where are you gonna get service after the sale? How are you gonna make sure it's running right? And, and we expect people to stand up for what they're supposed to stand up for, but do they always do that? You know, that's, that's a question that remains to be seen. Well, and I think. I mean, I think as when we start talking buyer beware, I, I do really think that you do need to do your homework. I think it's gonna get a lot harder to sell hot tubs. I, I think the competition's gonna really get a little more extreme. Cause I think there is some, some, some, some stuff out there that, that got shoved out into the, into the marketplace that maybe was, shouldn't have been there. And now they, they gotta get rid of that. So the only way that to do that is those prices are gonna come down. And as that happens, There's gonna be some, there's gonna be some fallout for that. And I do think that you're gonna see some, some manufacturers go under, and I do think you're gonna see some dealers go under just because the, the backup side of that is not gonna happen. And, and it, it has slowed down a bit. But I wouldn't, I'm still way above what it was before the, before the pandemic. I mean, people, hot tubs are still in extremely high demand and people are really, really wanting to buy'em and they understand how important they are and what they do for you. But just do your homework. I, I wouldn't just the be the best price is not the best deal. I would a hundred percent say that. That there's, you know, is there a 20 year parts guarantee? Is there a five year equipment guarantee? Is, you know, what kind of parts can they give you a part list of what's in that hot tub? and you know, do your homework call and say, Hey, I've got this. If you're looking at a particular brand, a hot tub, call the manufacturer. Call the dealer and tell em I have a three year old version of that hot tub, and can I get the parts for it and or even what parts does it need? It'll, it's interesting to see, see what comes out there. I mean, people will call and say, Hey, I need a heater for the, for this particular hot tub. And it's a, I had it happen this week. It was a 2008 hot tub, and they, they were looking for a heater. It was a brand X. And I'm like, I, I can't help you. I don't, I, I.. I can't find that for you. You're gonna have to get ahold of the manufacturer. Cause I don't, I don't know what it is. And if you can't find it, goodness. Right. And with the Watkins products and a lot of the products that I do sell, I do know what's going on and I can look up your serial number and I can look up the year and I know exactly what it is and, and how to fix it or what part Well, retro retrofit it. I can definitely, definitely make it work. That's a huge, I can't express how big of a deal that is. I and, and just, you know, getting the quality product up front that's going to last 20 years. I mean, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of stuff out there that isn't going to, there's a lot of stuff that well, but there's a lot of stuff out there that isn't going to make it 20 years. You know, you're right. I. Look at some appliances that I bought, and I won't mention names like Samsung . But they, they washer dryers, refrigerators TVs when I was growing up and I walked to school uphill both ways, right? Things lasted , but they did, no, when I, when I was growing up, things were different. It seemed to be the quality of the product and the longevity of these appliances, if you will. Were truly, we call it appliance grade. You know, you, you look at a hot tub, I would think that would be called Appliance. Great. And it is if you buy the right one because you buy it and it just works. Sure there's small things that go wrong with everything over time, but you don't have to spend.$700 to replace a motor for the microwave turntable to turn and the new microwave cost 800. Right. as an example. It's, it's crazy. I had to replace the the water. When you put your glass in the, in the drawer for door for the water to come out, it was like $900 just to get water out of the door. Yeah. New refrigerator out of my refrigerator. And I'm like, , this is, are you kidding me? And it, and that's, you know, it's, the world has changed. This has changed a lot. Well, yeah. The, the appliance grade thought process is that it lasts. It's reliable. It, it works when you want it to work. You just expect it to work. And you know, you go to your hot tub you want it to be hot. You want it to be clean. Mm-hmm.. . You don't want it to cost you a fortune to run every month. Otherwise, then it's a pain in your bill, so to speak. Right. So, you know, it's, it's always ready and, and, and always always there and, and reliable and, and anything we buy, you know, you always say, I'm too poor to buy cheap. Well, you don't always have to spend the highest dollar amount in order for something to work. Right. But you can't buy the lowest. To your point earlier, you know, that influx of product in the market that's coming down the pipe, be careful. Those shows that travel from town to town, you know, they're, they're getting rid of stuff from manufacturers that, that couldn't get rid of it through other channels in some cases. And I always jokingly say, Hey, our stores don't have wheels. We're gonna be here. Right. You know where to find me after you buy it. Right. And that is such a big deal that if, if people can. You know, if somebody buys from me personally, they get my cell number, they get my text message, they, you know, I'll talk to 'em anytime of day. I mean, I got a text message last night. I was at a Christmas concert for church, got a text message last night and it was a silly little thing. They clean their filters and they didn't rinse them well enough and then of course they had soap sets. I had to walk them through that. And I don't mind doing that if you buy, talking about, talking about why you're cleaning your filters with dawn dish soap. Well, right. No kidding. don't do that by the way. Please don't do that. No, please don't do that. Please don't do that. But it's, they bought for me for a reason and just like, I hope they buy from you and and your staff for a reason. I'm not saying that you're giving out your cell phone numbers, but they know where to find you. They can look you up on, on your Facebook page, they can look you up on your website and you guys answer your phone. You answer your emails, and that's a huge deal. The the people need time away from work for sure, but you also need to be able to count on the people that you bought it from. You buy it from a big box, you buy it from a traveling show, you buy it from the dealer that brought in something just because he got a, a steal of a deal on a truckload of hot tubs. But he can't get any parts to fix that. Now what, now what are you gonna do? I mean, there's, I mean, I've done it. I've sold hot tubs below cost in the past just to get rid of stuff. But if I can't get parts for it, I mean, I'm gonna give you a heads up that hey, this is as is and, and, and you are what you're getting, what you're getting. But a lot, a lot of people out there aren't gonna be. Be that honest. And my reputation to me is way more important than the dollar I'm gonna make. It's, and unfortunately the whole industry doesn't feel that way. I, I, I want people to say good things about me for forever. I don't ever want somebody to say, oh, she, she did this to me. And that's the beau. And I know that's the same with you guys too. I know that, that your, your dealership, you guys are a quality. You have nothing but people saying good things. The, the product that you put out, the backyards that you build, the, the, the environment that you supply for your customers makes them feel part of the family. And they, they love you for that reason. And that that's who you need to be buying hot tubs from, is people that do stuff like that, that are out in your community. They're gonna take care of you and their reputation is worth something. Yeah, I appreciate you saying so about us, and I know you guys are committed on your side, and it is a matter of integrity. It's a matter of business ethics and, and you know, just standard morals if you will. I say standard morals just because I expect people to do the right thing, but Right. Integrity and ethics are are sometimes gone to the wayside with with greed or, or desperation. And you don't want to be on the other side of that deal of somebody who's being greedy or, or that's desperate. No, no. Good really can come out of that for the other side of it. And that's, that's always a challenge. And as. Consumer first. I mean, I'm a consumer like every one of us, you know, I, I basically try to, I buy from who I like. I buy from who I trust. I expect to trust you. I shouldn't look at you as for any other reason until you gimme a reason not to trust you. I always say, right, I look for the good in all people and you know, you hope that's the case out there when you're, you're whatever you're buying and whatever you're doing. But yeah, being, being committed like you say you are, and being available for those simple questions, just, it turns the experience to a new level. And that's, our staff is the same way. I mean, gosh, my phone number is available online. Call me. I mean, look me up. I'm as publicly available as they come. Pictures and phone number together. I was like let me know if you need anything with your, your, your hot tub, your out outdoor living space. If we installed it, it. You have a referral call, we're there, right? We install it. You have an issue that you need adjustments, certainly call. And we're there. That's what it's about. Well, and it is what it's about. I mean, it's for, for you, for me, I, you know, I, I did a TikTok not too long ago and I said that a hot tub is the third most expensive thing you're ever gonna buy. That went viral because everybody in the world let me know that it's not the third most expensive thing in the world that you're gonna buy. But when you start getting into the whole package, like what you're doing, you know, with the whole backyard and, and everything that's going on there, and this stuff where I've done everything with people, the people spend a lot of money with us, like a lot. And like you said, people buy from people they like and. I want to be that person that people like. I mean, your business is, it's fun. Outdoor Li Living, that's the name of it, is fun. Outdoor Living, you're known as Hot Tub, John. That's, those are huge things. And who, who doesn't wanna buy somebody, buy from someone that has fun in their name or fun in their tagline. That's, that's fantastic. I mean, I wanna have fun. I wanna, what we do and how we, how we improve people's lives is fun. We don't ever want it to be work. Do you have to do stuff to take care of your product? Yes, but we don't ever want it to be work. We want it to be, I want you to be my friend. I want you to say good things about me, and I wanna be able to say good things about you. And, and, and I'm talking with my, with my consumers. I want them to, to say, oh, hey, go buy from her. She's the best. But I also wanted to say, oh, they love their hot tub. It's, they love coming in. They, they. You know, this, this is what it's all about. And I hope everybody has that exact same experience and same outlook going both directions. I mean, I want the consumer to, to love the the dealer, and I want the dealer to love the consumer. And there shouldn't be any reason why you're not. And if there ever is, is a problem. And there are problems don't. I mean, whether you're talking from man, manufacturer to dealer or dealer to consumer, there are problems. It's just a matter of how you're going to handle that problem. And if you're the person that makes sure the buck stops with you and you get it handled, just like you were saying earlier with, you know, if something's wrong, you're gonna fix it. If, if it's brand X and you gotta struggle and figure it out, you know how somebody should be taken care of. So you're gonna make sure they get taken care of. And even if that means that you have to take care of it personally, yourself. Well yeah, it's a true statement. We do what we say and we say what we do. And in the world of business, I don't think you can really survive in the same area for very many years successfully without having that type of a philosophy. And we really do work toward helping our customers. We try to instill that in all of our employees every day. And, and we live it. And that's, that's what it's about. Cuz it is a team effort. It's not just it's not just me. There's, there's 55 of us here in the company and that's awesome. There's how many stores did you guys have there? There's a lot. We have four locations. You have four locations and then a distribution center. Let's say that again. Distribution, four locations and a distribution center.. So five, if you want to count real estate addresses. Right. But four retail locations. Gotcha. And that includes the, the staff that does the hardscaping? Or is that kind of a separate, that's somewhat separate. So we have certified subcontractors do a lot of our, our work for us on say we hire out the heavy lifting, so to speak. And then our crews such as our project managers superintendents work through stages in between each one of the phases of a job. So we have a project manager that works forefront out their living and communicates with the homeowner, communicates with the work staff and the team and makes sure everything meets expectations and standard. That's, and then it grows from there. So, man, if you count up all of the other ancillary subcontractors that work with us, and very fortunate to say I have the same group of, of subcontractors that have worked with us for many years. The shortest tenure I think is, is like four years average is probably eight to 10 years. We've had the same group, but you count everyone up. I'm gonna say we probably have about a hundred families that we, we support as a company and, and the community supports when they buy from us. That's awesome. That's, it takes a lot of people to move these things around, that's for sure. It's, yeah, it does. It does. And, and it's, you know, it's still fun. I mean, it, it sounds like, oh my gosh, that might be overwhelming, but we love it. I love it. It, it is a good time. I mean, I just, you're selling hot tubs. I mean, how can that not be fun? I mean, we're swim spas. Oh my gosh. What, what an amazing tool for people to have is your, your, your hot tub lady. I'm hot tub John. I mean, we don't talk enough about swim spas and how great they are. Good night. Those are just an amazing exercise vessel as well as a family social soak. But you know, just, just thinking about the health benefits overall. Hot tubs are amazing. We know that hot water therapy, it doesn't get any better, but when you go in and I started exercising at a swim spot, so I'm a little bit pumped on these things, so. Well, I'm excited for you cause That's awesome. Thanks. It's been, it's been like super fast. Cool. Down on, on a hard exercise program. The the resistance is there. It's enjoyable. It's just, It's an amazing undervalued or under focused piece that we offer as, as, as companies you know, that offer hot water therapy. A lot of us offer swim spas. Right. They've been great and well, and I would say for us, for sure, it's our fastest growing category hands down. I mean, we're, the swim spas are definitely, definitely, you know, I'd say every day somebody comes in and asking about 'em. I mean, there is a little bit of a, a little bit of an education process on 'em. They're kind of where hot tubs were maybe 15 years ago as far as people are coming in. Yeah. Trying to figure out how much they actually cost, how big they really are, what it takes to actually put 'em in place. There, there's a, there's that going on. It is definitely our fastest growing category, and it is definitely wanting the most, is probably the most talked about inside of the showroom. That's probably, I spend a lot of time talking about swim spas, like a lot of time talking about swim spa. So they're great. Yeah, they're a lot of applications that people don't realize that they fit into. And there's a lot of applications that may not necessarily be suited for a swim spot, but I could say that once you understand them and you see how they are so versatile for the, the relaxation and hot water therapy and hydrotherapy that a hot tub offers, you also have the benefits of a the exercise that through just resistance of water. And, and the swim I'm sorry, the, the swim lane the exercise equipment for the rowing. They have treadmills for them, they have bikes for them. And low impact, you know, have an 81 year old father-in-law that is you know, he's, he's trying to stay in shape. The guy's 81, he's gotta keep moving. He gets in that thing and he loves it. That's amazing. That's, that's absolutely amazing. And, you know, my knees are in bad, bad shape, and I'm getting'em both replaced here in January, and they're killing me today. I, I thought I could wear heels for 20 minutes last night, and that was a joke. But I can run, I can physically run on that treadmill in the swim spot. I can't get your heart rate up. I I can't do that. Get your muscles moving because it's impact. I get it. It's low impact, high high result. It's, it's really amazing. I'm telling you, I'm just, I'm super pumped on it just because all the years gone by. I had. Always heard, talked hell, I sold 'em for years. I didn't use them as much as I've been using it now, it's a whole new world. That's awesome. So you must have put one in the backyard. Yes. Yeah, that's, yes. I, I, I need to get one in my backyard. That's, that's where I'm at. It's, that's, that's the next big project. Convenient. I mean, in your climate, you put 'em in the garage, right? You do. We actually, we do. I would say it's probably 70% of our, 70% of our customers put 'em in. They put 'em in the third stall. That's, yeah. I, I have a cus a cousin, a customer, a cousin up north that wanted to buy one and, and she's asking how to lay it out, where to design it. And we wound up putting it in her garage and she uses it more often because of just the, the convenience. And she she says she hates the cold So I'm like, perfect. We'll send you out in the garage. Right. It's your exercise room now? Mm-hmm.. Yeah, I would when I use the showroom and, and when I stay the night cuz I, I travel every day. I got a three hour commute, but when I stay the night I typically, I'll use the swim spa before I go, before I leave at the end of the evening. Just cuz it's, it's great. And I can, like I said, it makes my knees feel so much better than anything else that's out there. I mean, even my hot tub, because I can, I can move it and I can exercise it and I just, I can't do that otherwise. But it's been, it's been amazing. So I'm, you're right, we, I, I do need to talk more. I'm the hot tub lady and I do need to spend more time talking about swim spots cuz they are Oh, hot water and, and, and, and water aerobics and all of the good stuff that you bring forward. I mean, you bring a lot of knowledge forward in and it's just part of it. I, I think that you know, it's becoming a bigger segment for us and it's like any of it, you talk about. Buying a hot tub and all the benefits of it, all the health benefits are there and, and you know how easy it is to care for these days. There there's just come a long way. You know what really matters is how well you place it in the yard. How convenient is it to use if you're the owner, are you having to travel and trek through egg corns to get to it? You, you probably won't go as often because there's a, you know, not necessarily the convenience. So you know where you place it and, and what your you know, use is gonna be, are directly related for sure. Absolutely. I tell everybody, and sometimes they don't wanna hear it. The closer you put it to your door, the more you're gonna. It's sometimes it's gonna look really pretty out there, a hundred yards, and you've got, you think you have the perfect place, but you're gonna use it a lot more if you put it in the door. And I actually at here in South Dakota, and I'm in Northern South Dakota, I'm almost North Dakota. We get so much snow here. I actually bought oh, what do you call, snow melting mats. So for the roofs for, you know, like buffalo area, you put 'em on the roof so that they keep the snow from melting cuz they get such big, and I, I actually put those out as a path to my hot tub so my feet don't freeze to the ground. Cuz I'm a daily user. I'm out there every single day and figure out how to get there out there, make it easy. And as the closer you get it to, the closer you get it to the door, the more you're gonna use it. Buy two sets of stairs. Don't, well those people that wanna. Two. Yeah, it's a great point. Those people that wanna look across the yard and see the gazebo and the picturesque hot tub underneath that, maybe you need to buy two hot tubs, one next to the door, and that one One for the picture and one for the, yeah, one for the picture, one for the one for the reus. But yeah, two sets of steps is a great point. And you know, I, I, I think about, you know, the swim spa again, you talk about how you're getting in and out of it. The proper steps for those are important. Mm-hmm. the steps for hot tubs, I mean, there are surrounds that they make for hot tubs that have three tiers, you know, long tiers of steps. There's a company I love Out There is A and B Wood products. They are make amazing looking products, quality. Really, those guys not just make steps, they make storage compartments for stuff. They make beautiful towel racks. I mean, who wants to go outside to put your towel on the on the edge of the hot tub that falls in, and then your towels wet. Right? And the corners get a towel rack. Get, yeah, get, get some place to hold your drink. Some place to put your phone down. You know, really set yourself up the right way when you, when you lay this hot tub out there. For sure. And I'm, I'm a big proponent of design for sure, for sure. And you guys, that's obvious. And just, you guys go check out his website. I think I, yeah, I have it right here. Make sure you go check out John's website. It's fun outdoor living.com com. He, they do some absolute amazing stuff. And the whole, the whole design, they do, they do it incredibly well. But, you know, back to a and b. Ryan just has, has purchased that and he's a, he's a good friend of mine and I'm really excited for him to, to see what happens there. But what a great product if, if you guys are looking for accessories to go with your hot tub, that is the company to go check out. It's A and B, A and is just wood products A and B, wood A and B wood products. I don't know their website. I know A and B Wood products. I have it already, like already dialed in on saved icons, so I hate to say that, but they are A and B Wood products over the years, they've done such a great job. Again, really nice designs, proper, convenient, easy to use in and out. Safe, safe way to get in and out. Folks have mobility issues. You know, you step up on two tiered steps. Go to the three tiered steps, you know, get up there, put your bottom down and sit down safely so you can Right. You know, get in and out and enjoy it instead of having to struggle if you have mobility issues to lift your leg over. There's so many better ways to, you know, use the product. And those have sometimes been deterrents for folks is, oh, I don't see myself getting in and out of 'em. Well, there's some really convenient accessories that make it really safe and easy to use. Oh, and they're beautiful. I mean, what he does absolutely. They're like decorations around the tunnel. It's, he builds planners. He does, I mean, in the, the, the curve around the, I mean, it's just, it's absolutely gorgeous. And that's, like you said, the design is, I mean, and it makes it a, it makes it your favorite room in the house when you decorate it up and, and you do everything. So it looks as cool and, and. Designed as your living room does, and that you, you know, the thousands of dollars you spend on the furniture there. If the hot tub is going to be, or the swim spot, it is going to be one of the most used rooms in your home. I, it is in my house. I mean, we're, we are in it twice a day, every day. I was in it this morning for a good hour and a half, and Frank will be in it. He'll, he'll probably be home here in about an hour, I'm guessing today it he'll go straight to the hot tub. That'll be right where he goes. And then we'll be in it again one more time tonight before we go to bed. And sometimes it's 15, 20 minutes. Sometimes it's half hour, hour. But, and we, we do have some really cool steps and planters and I've, I've put my plants away for the winter, but it really makes it a place that you want to be. So that's huge. You use real plants? No. I don't use real plants. No, I'm kidding. I do, I do. In the showrooms, we have we've had a challenge keeping our real plants alive. So we, we've gone to some of the artificial, but yeah, we were gonna hire, yeah, the, the the the chemical storage is there. Yeah, so, you know, mainly it's, it's a matter of convenient to use, making it so it's safe to get in and out of those are, those are all important things for sure. You're gonna use them. You do. It's got look, you have to go ahead. I said it has to look good. Who wants to see a, a box a brown box across the patio? There's so many ways to integrate that into your yard today that you don't have that, just that brown box of water sitting over there or that gray box. It's just ways to make it really integrated and, and. and really part of your design. And it's, yeah, it's, it's just a, it's where you're going to be, so make it, make it where you want to be. And it's, they've come so far. I remember when I used to sell the red redwood boxes with the wood and Oh, they were so bad., but they've come, they look great. When they were new it was kinda cool. Yeah, a little bit. It took a little bit of maintenance to keep them up. Even if you don't have anything around'em today, they, gosh, the panels are so much more appealing and attractive. They focused on not having it look like just the box in the corner. But, you know, just as I said, is making it convenient to get in and out of, and. A lower that it has with nice storage capacity and tower holders and nice steps. Those really work. But how do we get off a post pandemic onto this? I don't know what I did. It happens every time, but it happens every time. Honestly, I'm tired of talking about pandemic. I mean, I really am. I'm ready to move on and, and do that. But you know, with that being said, we are getting, getting pretty close to an hour, believe it or not, but do you have any advice for the people out there who are thinking about buying a hot tub today? What you, what would you tell someone that is just jumping into the market today and they're like, it's time I need a hot tub. What, what are you gonna tell 'em? Fun out deliver.com. Is that too? Much. No, I'm kidding.? No. Honestly, what I would tell 'em is, is the the market has a lot of options. We, we need to make sure that you get the features that are important to you. A smaller hot tub does not make it cheaper. Think about, you know, when you get into a hot tub, you say you're only gonna be in there with maybe four people. Maybe only two of you. Don't buy a two person hot tub is the first thing I'm gonna tell you in most cases, because a two person hot tub is like made for one person. By the way, I don't know how these guys keep listing this stuff. Oh, it holds three maybe if you don't wanna have legs, right?, I'm gonna say overall, you know, the real advice is make sure you, you, you take a look at what's available in the market. You, you look at the features and your, your quality and longevity are really gonna be based on, you know, the history of the manufacturer, how long have they really been doing it, and then the person that you're buying it from, you need to make sure you know who they are and how long they've been around. Have they serviced their customers in the past? The best of intentions go right out the window with not being able to follow through because of outside circumstances. So you want someone with a track record and a history. A lot of manufacturers have been bought and sold so many times over the years. A manufacturer that's been under the same ownership for many, many years over and and done quite well is Watkins. And there are a few select others out there, but they're really not as many dealers that have been under the same ownership and, and have a great record of track record of customer service over the years. It's, that's important. So finding a product that suits your family's needs understanding the features and what's important to you and then, you know, working it backwards. Don't start with, I need to find a price point and, and I need a hot tub that fits into that price point. Take a look at how much it costs for the hot tub, and then work backwards into that. Right? Because, you know, there. The amount of people, they'll be like, oh, I got 90 jets for whatever dollar amount. Those 90 jets are great if they work for five years. I mean, there's, there's just some stuff that goes on with that. You know, you kind of touched on not, not buying a two person hot tub. And a lot of people come in when they say, oh, I'm looking for a two or three person, which really is saying, I don't wanna spend a lot of money. So you're actually better off when you, when you go talk to dealers and say, I, you know, I'm not, I don't, I don't wanna buy the biggest, baddest one. I, I, I wanna be in the middle. Because if you do buy a two or three person hot tub, by the time you put water in there and the water displaces. People get in, it's just way more work than it's worth whatever size hot tub that you think that you want. So if you think you want a five person hot tub, you wanna get a seven person hot tub. If you, if you think you want a four person hot tub, you wanna get a six person hot tub. Cause by the time you get the legs in there, you're typically, you're full. So kind of think about that. Check out the warranties. Warranties are a big deal. And I'm a big, big believer in just the quality of the, of the build of the product. There's, there's a lot that happens and when, when hot tub prices start going down, they start taking stuff out. So there are things that you start losing. You start losing salt systems, you start losing 24 hour circulation pumps. You start losing jet pumps in general, you start losing insulation. I mean, there, there's just things that. It costs what it costs. And people can't, manufacturers can't cut those costs anymore without removing quality products that, that you need in your hot tip. So compare apples to apples when it comes, comes down to that. And definitely they both look the same. They both look the same, but one costs $75 a month to run and one costs $25 a month to run. Right? There's a reason for that. That adds up quickly, very quickly. And especially if you're in a market like mine where you get to be 42 below, not only does it add up to your electric bill, it just may not make it through the winter. I mean, it's that simple that it's got, it's gotta survive our winners around here. So those are all really big things. And you know, I would ask, I would go out there and ask, what is your parts availability? What is your parts? You know, Watkins does the 20 year parts guarantee. They guarantee that they're gonna have parts for that hot tub for 20 years. I, I can't stress how big a deal that is. That is one of the biggest deals, and I remember when they introduced it in, that was probably around 2008 or so, but it's been life changing. I mean, I was able to get parts this whole time for the Watkins products and I can tell you in the next five to 10 years, there's gonna be a lot of hot tubs out there that you can't get parts for. Yeah. You need to be careful on who you, who you buy from now. And if you had one of those other products that you might have jumped into and you, you feel, you shouldn't talk to a local dealer and see if they're willing to do a trade in and trade up. On something like that to put you into what you know, you feel comfortable with for the long term. Mm-hmm . So you're not stuck and you can at least get out before you lose your shirt, so to speak. Right. So a lot of I all, all of my peers do trade-ins. So I do trade-ins. So you do trade-ins pretty much any of the walk-in Steelers do trade-ins. And you'd be surprised, especially if you still have a Watkins product, that they hold their value pretty well. So that's something to think about too when you're shopping is, is trade-in value. Cuz it does make a difference. So we are out of time. You have anything you wanna wrap up with Mr. Hot Tub John? No, thank you for having me though. You're a pleasure to work with. I appreciate what you do. Well I appreciate you being, I gave you kind of a short notice and said hey, I need somebody. And you showed up and I totally appreciate that and you guys are awesome. Second choice. So make sure you grab a copy of the book, hot Tub Clarity, and of course I got all the logbooks as well. You can check those out. Those are available on Amazon. Join the Facebook group, clean your hot tub filters. That's where we everybody's there and we just kinda talk and chat. And if you have any hot tub questions, we're happy to answer them there. And we will definitely this'll be on the podcast if you have any questions or if you need to find John anywhere. All, all his links and everyone way to get ahold of him is down in the show notes or in the description on the YouTube channel. And you guys are the absolute greatest and I will talk to you. See.